Comments on crossculturalism: Some Ugly Hispanic Numbers

Agree Anonymous2. The "dissapointment" i...

2011-09-17T13:04:08.202-07:00

Agree Anonymous2. The "dissapointment" in the article is directed at the traditional Multicultural advertiser who benefits from a separate group of people. Fortunately, there are many agencies, television stations and marketers who are changing their approach. Reason to hope.

What I find unfortunate is the tone of disappointm...

2011-09-17T12:48:07.466-07:00

What I find unfortunate is the tone of disappointment in this article. As with all ethnicities that come to America, they do assimilate. I believe Angela Merkel made the point that the experiment of multiculturalism was an utter failure. You can not have a culture within a culture as it will create permanent 2nd and 3rd class citizens.

A very famous man once said, "If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." I'm certain God doesn't see us as skin color...why should we?

Anonymous2.

Ken, you said, "But only if you do it careful...

2011-04-26T06:20:37.073-07:00

Ken, you said, "But only if you do it carefully, with the right product, right pricing and right expectations," which is something that has been on my mind for many years. Until now, there was little info online or anywhere else that would encourage me to do what I've spent half my life doing; but I did it anyway. Now, I hope to find that my efforts and vision are about to pay off, not only for me but for those to whom I wish to market the fruit of all my labor. My website and my name should be enough for locating and identifying me, and by May this year, I hope to launch a literary work called Tierra del Oro. The first historical novel of this multi-book saga will be "Forty Grains of Black Powder." Tierra del Oro is a dramatic adventure based on a fictional family, set in Mexico in the 19th and 20th centuries, with an accurately researched historical base. I hope to market this work to EVERYONE, but am most interested in getting feedback from the Latino community.

Hi, first time blogger. Thank you all for the insi...

2011-03-03T14:02:09.287-08:00

Hi, first time blogger. Thank you all for the insightful opinions.
Ken, great info. I appreciate how you made lemonade out of lemons. Your spin on what to focus despite the #'s and facts, Fabuloso!! I hope to read more of your opinions.
Ivonne - I totally identified with you and how well you explained every point. Thank you for your perspective.

Hola Benedicto del Campo. Entiendo tu frustración,...

2010-12-05T11:14:09.228-08:00

Hola Benedicto del Campo. Entiendo tu frustración, la cual percibo claramente a través de tu post, sin embargo estoy en desacuerdo con la perspectiva que presentas respecto a lo que es ser "realmente Hispano".
Como cada quien tiene derecho a tener y a expresar su propia opinión, respeto la tuya y solo te voy a dar el ejemplo real que tengo mas a la mano en este momento "YO"; y de ahí tu sacaras tus propias conclusiones.
Nací, crecí y viví en Venezuela, hasta los 32 años cuando emigre a los Estados Unidos (eso fue hace 9 años), con un solo idioma en mi haber, "español". Aprendí a hablar y a escribir en ingles estando en este país, por lo tanto me siento obviamente mucho más cómoda hablando y escribiendo español.

A ver...basándonos en mis características demográficas: "first generation Hispanic", "Spanish preffered Hispanic", "newly arrived"... listo! - la publicidad Hispana tradicional me mete en mi cajita de "Hispanic audience" asumiendo que llegan a mi a través de Univision o Telemundo verdad? Pues NO. Hay otra cara de esa moneda y es esta:

- Mi nombre es Ivonne Kinser... (ya que mencionaste lo de los nombres). Y por cierto, no tengo una gota de sangre Americana en mis venas. Como diríamos en mi país, soy “Venezolana de pura cepa”.
- No solo leo este y todos los otros blogs sobre temas que me interesan "en ingles"... SIEMPRE, sino que escribo mi propio blog de "Hispanic Marketing"… “en ingles”.
- No veo JAMAS televisión en Español. Simplemente el contenido no me satisface y encuentro mas entretenido (para mi gusto) el contenido de los canales en ingles...Aunque se quien es Guillermo Capetillo (creo que lo llamaste "Andrés" en tu post, pero su nombre es "Guillermo"... A menos que estés hablando de su hermano Eduardo que también es actor... pero en fin, y para so salirnos del tema sigamos...
- Leo revistas y libros en Ingles SIEMPRE, a menos de que lo que quiera leer no este disponible en ingles lo cual no es muy probable.
-Hablo todos los días con mi familia “en español” y a mis hijo les hablo SIEMPRE en español.
- Hago mi compra de mercado en el supermercado Hispano porque es en donde consigo los ingredientes para cocinar mis platos Latinos…en my casa se come MUY Latino y hasta a mis hijos nacidos aquí en los Estados Unidos les encanta mi comida.

Creo que ya pinte un retrato bastante claro de "mi" como consumidora y ahora te pregunto:
If one of you clients would want to reach me, what outlets would you include in your media recommendation?
In which language would you recommend your clients to talk to me?

I would love to hear your answer. Maybe we have it all wrong and you have a much better approach that could help all of us Hispanic advertisers to be more effective when reaching "Spanish Preferred Hispanics”...like me...

2010-12-05T11:09:01.910-08:00

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Thanks for the thoughts Ken. Do you or does anyo...

2010-11-29T16:03:20.283-08:00

Thanks for the thoughts Ken.

Do you or does anyone reading this blog have good case studies of brands doing creative, effective efforts to reach the higher acculturated segment? I hear so much that this is what has to be done, but I'm still seeing the "same ol, same ol" in Hispanic marketing. Maybe I'm missing all the great, juicy bicultural case studies with kick ass creative and off the charts results? If so, I'm eager to see them. Please send any good information on this subject to my personal email: sconley500@hotmail.com. I'll be forever indebted to you!

Thanks!

Hey Stephen! Nice to hear from you. It's been ...

2010-11-17T06:30:58.004-08:00

Hey Stephen! Nice to hear from you. It's been a while. There is absolutely no question that the lowest hanging fruit and the one that must be addressed first is the Span Dom consumer. That's the consumer that isn't reached by Eng media, etc. And frankly, that's the consumer whose habits are most different than the norm. There's a huge upside for clients that haven't spoken to that client.

Now, once they have that under control, they should start figuring out what to do with the other chunk of the market...the one everyone forgets about: the higher acculturation folks. Lumping them in with the gen market and assuming they'll be effectively reached just because they're seeing the gen market work is not enough.

Great post Ken. Great blog! Although I'm more...

2010-11-15T07:03:43.873-08:00

Great post Ken. Great blog! Although I'm more on the creative side these days writing copy and creating brands for start-ups and "PYME's" clients around the world, I still have a foot in the Hispanic planning world as a consultant as well...and this is a fascinating,complex challenge to say the least. It's one I struggle with on a frequent basis..

When I read through this, the numbers are undeniable and unquestionable. The problem I have is with the practice. Getting clients to invest in English to Hispanic consumers isn't an easy pill to swallow as I'm sure you'd agree. I suppose it's not that different to the African American market to some extent. While most clients would agree that there are some significant cultural differences between White Americans and AA Americans that can be addressed via relevant and insightful communications, it inevitably becomes a question of priorities and budgets- especially in this economy. Also, most Hispanic agencies are terrified to leave their comfort zone and risk their sizable fees and tackle a segment that could arguably be handled well by a diverse, culturally sensitive/properly staffed GM shop (like yours I suppose ;)).

Perhaps is traditional, but part of me still believes in the "low hanging fruit" approach for Hispanic marketing- especially for broad categories in which all Hispanics participate eg brick and mortar retail. In other words, if you have little to no Hispanic strategy to reach Spanish speaking Hispanics via very efficient media such as TV, you should probably start here and get it right here before straying off to the bilinguals or English dominant youth...

What say you?

Great comments, all. And en son de buscar la quin...

2010-08-04T11:36:28.610-07:00

Great comments, all. And en son de buscar la quinta pata al gato, I do beleive content is a factor. I lived in Puerto Rico for many years. With the advent of cable TV (in English) a huge portion of the audience began watching in English. As soon as cable offered better quality programming in Spanish, the numbers shifted. As for youth, they want what is hip! I know a lot of people (anecdotally) who started learning English by watching MTV. Rather than worry about being snake oil salesmen, we should advocate strongly, every day, for really knowing the target audience of our clients'. They persist in seeing the Hispanic market as a monolith, that can (choose one) only be reached through Spanish-language or can easily be reached by their General Market program. Los extremos siempre son malos!

Anonymous: agree on the short term thing. Very fru...

2010-07-06T11:42:10.245-07:00

Anonymous: agree on the short term thing. Very frustrating. But what's more damaging: coming across as a snake-oil salesman (Don't worry. Just buy this Spanish TV time! We all speak Spanish and only Spanish), or an uncomfortable, but honest look at the numbers (as was my intent above)?

All we know is that nothing is going to change dra...

2010-07-06T09:48:31.944-07:00

All we know is that nothing is going to change dramatically in 3rd and 4thQ 2010...Unfortunately Hispanic marketing has always been a rather short term business proposition, where brands stick their toe in but never really dive in...maybe because they read stuff like this!...If we all have jobs in 2011 and beyond we'll see what the storm left standing and take it from there...crusaremos ese puente cuando lleguemos a el.

Mi querido Don Benedicto: me guardo mi fe para Dio...

2010-07-06T05:57:21.583-07:00

Mi querido Don Benedicto: me guardo mi fe para Dios, y sólo para Dios. En lo demás, confío en los números y en los hechos.

No te sabes la historia de un cierto personaje antiguo de la industria que solía decir "Trust me, I'm Hispanic!" cuando el cliente le hacía cualquier pregunta? Pues esos dias se acabaron. Gracias a Dios.

Anonymous: Indeed, Spanish advertising can be quite effective when done correctly. Some serious numbers, some serious ROI. But only if you do it carefully, with the right product, right pricing and right expectations. Saludos!

How many of you who wrote or read the above commen...

2010-07-05T09:10:23.499-07:00

How many of you who wrote or read the above comments actually speak real Spanish? I am not talking about those who write at the end of an email “Gracias!” or “Saludos!” or isolated words or phrases [arroz con frijoles, burrito, etc…?
The problem with you is that you actually belong to that 58% as you say exits [you should show formulas and back up how you came up with those 18% and 8%]. You watch English television all the time, and you call your self Hispanic or Latino; and you think that all Hispanics are like you or that all important Hispanics you should be reaching are like you. Why is these blog 98% in English? I see you are a math guy and rely or believe on numbers. Can numbers prove the existence of God? Didn’t you learn in university that research numbers can only be used as a tool but not as a determinant factor? Where is your own experience or expertise? The company you work for should hire just a math teacher if looking at numbers is all what they need.
Ken Muench, what kind of name is that? Are you one of those whose name are Patricia but introduce yourself as Patty or Santiago and change it for Santi?
If you were a real Hispanic [50/50, you see I come up with my own numbers too], you would not be stating this. Can you tell me if Univision will launch a Telenovela with Andres Capetillo and another one with Saul Izazo as main Charaters, based on your own experience with the Hispanic market [do not look at Nielsen almighty numbers], which one will probably have more rating? Do you even know who they are? Can you tell me if ABC will launch a TV series with Charlie Sheen and another one with Steve Carell as main Charaters, based on your own experience with the General market [do not look at Nielsen almighty numbers], which one will probably have more rating?
Depending on your answer, then “Zapatero a tus Zapatos!

This is the old reality coming back to haunt the i...

2010-07-04T19:53:30.857-07:00

This is the old reality coming back to haunt the individuals who invented the "need" to advertise in Spanish. Advertising in Spanish is not a stipulation, but an added bonus, an extra benefit that you can offer your client. Nevertheless, there is a captive market out there that can only be reached in Spanish because they actually don't speak English, and let's not kid ourselves, that "Spanish only" market happens to be considerable. So all is not lost, but it's good that the hype will finally have to stop now that someone brought the cat out of the bag.

I think it's surprising, David, how many clien...

2010-06-15T17:21:17.647-07:00

I think it's surprising, David, how many clients still believe that doing a buy on Univison takes care of all your Hispanic initiatives....The truth is that unless you are doing English language stuff reaching Hispanics, you are now officially not reaching the majority of the opportunity, especially in some categories. I'm not sure how many clients have truly internalized that.

Well, DUH. This isn't something that we haven&...

2010-06-15T16:32:42.203-07:00

Well, DUH. This isn't something that we haven't known for at least a decade. Most of the agencies I've worked at have been trying to integrate English into their Hispanic campaigns (to varying degrees) since the early 2000s. The problem is that clients love to scoop up that money and throw it back at the General Market agencies. The best approach is to become the General Market agency yourself, so you can focus on the total market, English AND Spanish.

great post

2010-06-13T18:56:19.718-07:00

great post

Sorry about that Anonymous...the post is a bit con...

2010-05-18T05:42:16.343-07:00

Sorry about that Anonymous...the post is a bit confusing with all the math. The 58% actually refers to the unnecessarily complicated math below the 60% chart. The 58% actually weights each of the viewing groups differently and arrives at its solution, thereby giving Spanish TV credit for those that watch "a little". But given that it's only 2% difference, I probably should have just left it at that. Oh well...next time.

Not that this invalidates your point in any way, b...

2010-05-17T10:35:38.452-07:00

Not that this invalidates your point in any way, but next time you should double check the math. In English or Espanol, 28 + 32 = sesenta :)

Hear Hear Rocio! Let's see how all this plays ...

2010-05-06T15:36:54.590-07:00

Hear Hear Rocio! Let's see how all this plays out. It's a fun time to be in the industry.

Un abrazo.

As always enjoying everything that comes from you ...

2010-05-03T09:48:32.390-07:00

As always enjoying everything that comes from you my friend. I can't be more in agreement. Hispanic agencies have to become bicultural too, moving beyond their marketing "ghettos" (in the media, in the retail, in the market) and impacting the general market strategies that finally come back to the Latino consumers.

I feel your pain John. But as I look at many His...

2010-04-23T07:45:34.704-07:00

I feel your pain John.

But as I look at many Hispanic shops or even Hispanic media outlets I see that they're still relatively content with their audience. Because hey, the absolute numbers aren't shrinking in Spanish! What is shrinking dramatically is the slice of the pie that they represent. And that's the scary part.

I'm afraid most folks won't react until it's too late.

Ken, This is something I have been arguing intern...

2010-04-22T14:08:43.833-07:00

Ken,

This is something I have been arguing internally in my organization, "pero arbol que nace doblado, jamas su tronco endereza."

Our industry both the advertising and media, predominantly, has notoriously rely in population growth and a continous flow of new immigrants into the country. Consequently, the investment and development of new programming has remained stale and our society has continue to evolve.

I have personally felt that the type of programming shown in the Spanish networks are the type of programming you get to see at a local station in a rural area, perhaps, regional at most in any latin american country.

Is time for the media industry to get a wake up call and our advertising/marketing industry to push for more innovative and cutting edge programs

Pues muchas veces, la gata tiene 5 patas! In this...

2010-04-21T12:53:55.345-07:00

Pues muchas veces, la gata tiene 5 patas!

In this case Bea, I'm afraid that you're probably right. Folks that can speak both languages would be watching more Spanish if the content was just irresistible. World Cup may be one of those cases that can actually pull English-Language TV watcher over to Spanish Language TV. There's a huge opportunity here beyond World Cup. That would be a saving grace of the industry, no?

And Roy, you're right. I'm fooling around with Nielsen numbers right now. I'll post an update, but it's looking awfully similar.